Email Chain

Jpoo · Guru

Big Ben, Dancing Queen

MFisH · Negus

where was the attacking a 20 year old girl in that story? but that sounds nice, seems like everyone had a great time....until u remember hes playing in the super bowl in 3 days! this guy just doesnt get it. i bet tom brady or peyton manning would never be in a bar drinking til 2am 3 days before the super bowl. and u wonder y ppl will never put him up with them

6ixty · Young Money

I'm not biting on a story pulled from tmz. it doesnt say he was "drinking his face off" it said he was singing his face off. since when is it not ok to have a drink and sing 4 days before the super bowl? oh i forgot, NFL players never drink, how dare he!

this aint ****

MFisH · Negus

im glad u want ur #1 player out til 2am at a bar 3 days away from the biggest day of the year

6ixty · Young Money

i honestly dont think this is abnormal behavior for any nfl player. Hines ward was spotted at the strip club tuesday night but thats not a big deal right? ok peter king

MFisH · Negus

all im saying is that there is a reason y we keep hearing stories about party animals acting up like big ben, or tony romo going on vacation in cancun the week b4 his playoff game and we never hear stories like brady or manning doing **** like this. and its not like the media doesnt follow them around, they just are a little more mature than the other guys. thats why when u talk best qbs u never hear big bens name with them. and yea if he wins another super bowl he have 3 so because of the stats we would have to include him, but if manning and big ben switched teams im convinced manning would have like 5 super bowls and big ben's colts wouldnt make it past the 2nd round

6ixty · Young Money

im not getting into the argument of big ben vs brady and manning but if you think the reason hes not in that conversation is because hes at a karaoke bar your nuts. you know better than that fish come on

6ixty · Young Money

i dont think manning would last 10 games behind the steelers offensive line. Bill Polian said he includes ben as a top 3 qb

MFisH · Negus

big ben is a good player on a great team. he has 2 defensive player of the year on his defense, which doesnt even include pro bowlers like casey hampton, james farrior, ryan clarke, aaron smith, timmons and woodley and o btw a hall of fame defense coordinator. like i said if manning had that d they would be a dynasty and the patriots might only have 1 if any

Jpoo · Guru

Whats wrong with a lil don't stop believin'?!

MFisH · Negus

theres a reason y when the lost big ben for 4 games they go 3-1 but when they lose poluma or a few guys on defense they miss the playoffs. that doesnt happen if manning would ever get hurt

6ixty · Young Money

MFisH wrote:

all im saying is that there is a reason y we keep hearing stories about party animals acting up like big ben, or tony romo going on vacation in cancun the week b4 his playoff game and we never hear stories like brady or manning doing **** like this. and its not like the media doesnt follow them around, they just are a little more mature than the other guys. thats why when u talk best qbs u never hear big bens name with them. and yea if he wins another super bowl he have 3 so because of the stats we would have to include him, but if manning and big ben switched teams im convinced manning would have like 5 super bowls and big ben's colts wouldnt make it past the 2nd round

i take that back. there is so much wrong with this post i gotta go in on it.

"all im saying is that there is a reason y we keep hearing stories about party animals acting up like big ben"

- hes not acting up. hes singing karaoke. The reason you keep hearing about him is because if he has a single rum and coke the media acts like hes **** face wasted and its illegal so he should be suspended. He did nothing wrong

-"thats why when u talk best qbs u never hear big bens name with them"

Let me give you some example of people with a little more knowledge than u who think otherwise:

Bill Polian:

“Bottom line, if you ask football people, they’re going to put Ben Roethlisberger up there with [Manning and Brady] almost unanimously,” Polian told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “No one would leave him out. And others who have made the Pro Bowl, for example, wouldn’t even get consideration if you took a poll of all 32 general managers.”

John Clayton:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5972554

Mike Florio:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/01/as-a-playoff-passer-ben-roethlisberger-is-tom-bradys-equal/

Adam Schefter:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/blog?name=schefter_adam&id=6082527&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fblog%3fname%3dschefter_adam%26id%3d6082527

Jerome Bettis:
http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/danpatrick/audio/2011/01/26/DP-Hr1_01-26-2011_stream.mp3"

James Walker:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/24227/is-ben-roethlisberger-hall-of-fame-worthy

I could find infinate more. Saying that Bens not in the coversation with them is ignorant and incorrect.

"if manning and big ben switched teams im convinced manning would have like 5 super bowls and big ben's colts wouldnt make it past the 2nd round"

Not only is this a ridiculas argument but couldnt be more incorrect. Manning behind the steelers offensive line? Wouldnt work. Manning with Bens recievers? wouldnt work. Im guessing youre saying this becasue of the defense but Bradys championships were won with Rodney Harrison, Vince Wilfork, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Asante Samuel etc... Brady always had a solid defense when he was winning SBs so dont play that card

"theres a reason y when the lost big ben for 4 games they go 3-1 but when they lose poluma or a few guys on defense they miss the playoffs. that doesnt happen if manning would ever get hurt"

except that brady was injured on the first drive of the season and the pats went 11-5... hmmm

6ixty · Young Money

Brock Lesner on who will win the SB:

"Pittsburgh. Why? Big, Bad Ben Roethlisberger."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1101/nfl-celebrity-super-bowl-picks/content.21.html

even your boy is a fan fish!

6ixty · Young Money

Bens also 7 years younger than those guys. if you compare their first 7 years in the league ben would probably be #1 among them because of the SBs

6ixty · Young Money

C'monn you cant post somthing like that and then hide!

MFisH · Negus

1. ur right he did nothing wrong to get arrested, but i still dont want me qb out drinking at a bar til 2am. y do u never see website like tmz reporting about brady, manning or breese at the bar? cuz they dont do it

2. weird, every single one of those articles happen after the steelers made another run to the super bowl, and most of them are arguing if he is up there IF he wins another super bowl. media is obsessed with stats, and they think if a guy has 3 super bowls then that makes him the greatest of all time like thats the only thing that matters. u werent seeing these rankings a few months ago, and now he might be going to the hall of fame? like i said before, switch manning and big ben hes not winning 2-3 super bowls.

3. manning behind the steelers line? name my 1 colts olinemen. jeff saturday? would u rather have pouncey or saturday? ur acting like the colts oline is all pro bowlers, why do u think there running game is one of the worst in the nfl every year? and one of the reasons ppl think the steelers line sucks is cuz they give up so many stats, but thats cuz big ben runs around for 10 seconds, a qb like manning he gets rid of the ball quick so that wouldnt be an issue. give manning a defense like the steelers and u dont think they win 5? ur crazy. u dont think that team with manning beats the seahawks, cardinals again? what about the team that went 15-1?

and wrs? u must of missed this season when manning was thorwing to practice squad guys like jacob tamme and blair white? i think he would be jsut fine with ward, wallace and heath miller. and o btw, mendenhall or joesph addia who plays 6 agmes a year? this isnt even close.

4. when did i ever say anything about the patriots. ur right a HUGE reason why brady has 3 super bowls is cuz of the defense. but if u give manning an even better one this isnt even close...

6ixty · Young Money

well heres jon claytons ranking on September 4th 2010. Still had ben in the same place....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview10/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5489176

Is your argument that manning is the best qb in the league? im not arguing that. but to say that ben is not in the conversation of the top-3 is ridiculas

MFisH · Negus

ill be honest, at 1st i was bored at work and saw joshs post and wanted to rile u up, but now we have a debate. i was joking about the bar thing, do i want my qb at the bar til 2am super bowl week? prolly not, but do i think it will effect him on sunday, no.

but as for teh big ben being a top 5 qb, i honestly think it is very very tough to say that. on the one hand, he is a winner and he makes plays and its tough to say a guy isnt top 2-3 when he has that playoff record and 2 maybe 3 or more future super bowl wins. but on the other, u have to admit he is in a very very good postion with that defense and surround cast, and even his coaches are hall of fame worthy (lebeau, cowhar, and tomlin is defintly rising). but i just hate when the media claims a guy on a team sport isnt the top guy cuz he doesnt win a super bowl, or vise versa saying a guy can now be considered great cuz he finally won one.

jon elway is considered a top 2-3 qb of all time, a lot of ppl have him at 1. he didnt win his last 2 super bowls until his last 2 years of his career when he had a good supporting cast around him. if those last years didnt happen, or if he lost one of them, is he still #1? to a lot of ppl no, but that is what i cant stand, in a team sport so much of the indivdual rankings goes into on whether or not the team wins. it just isnt one player, and if manning and big ben switched teams, the steelers would be a dynasty and i honetly dont think big bens colts would make it very far every year

Jpoo · Guru

paging Dan Marino....

MFisH · Negus

ya exactly. ur telling me if troy aikmen was on the dolphins and marino was on the cowboys he wouldn't have 2-3 super bowls? that is my point, if u say o the guy is hall of fame worthy cuz of the super bowls i dont buy it

Jpoo · Guru

I think we can all at least agree, that Eli Manning is the greatest Superbowl winning quarterback of all time. It's obvious HE did it all by himself! I mean did they even have a defense?! (insert sarcasm here)

-- Edited by Jpoo on Thursday 3rd of February 2011 09:33:33 AM

MFisH · Negus

eli manning, example #1 why winning a super bowl doesnt mean ur a great qb. haha kidding...kind of...

MFisH · Negus

did i just beat nick in a big ben argument??

judges...(in my marv albert voice)...YES!!

6ixty · Young Money

i was at lunch you still havent mentioned one thing as to why hes not a top 3 qb but i will leave you with this...

MFisH wrote:

If I was making my list of guys i want right now (and not the future) here is how it would go:

1. Brady (no question in my mind)
2. Manning
3. Big Ben (toss up between him and breese but i think breese is in a much better offense for a qb which is why he has the #'s he does)
4. Breese (might move up depending on this years playoffs)
5. Rodgers

so lets recap... fish says ben is not a top 3 qb when January 6 he made his own list of top 10 QBs which included ben at #3. Since then ben has made it to his third super bowl. you mention that brees could move up depending on this years playoffs. Well brees lost to the 7-9 Seahawks and ben beat the 2 best defenses in the nfl other than the steelers.

fish your who argument is moot at this point.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Let me get into this one real quick. Nick, nobody is questioning Big Ben's legacy as a Qb and a Steeler. But what I think Fish is trying to argue is that this guy has not learned from his mistakes. This is Super Bowl weekend, and the guy is out drinking rum and cokes "singing his face off" at a bar until 1AM. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to assume he was intoxicated. The guy is under a microscope for his actions, and it doesn't appear that he cares at all.

I feel bad for his to-be wife, dude is going to cheat his ass off.

Jpoo · Guru

zinnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

6ixty · Young Money

no danny we arent arguing that at all read all the posts before you give your input

6ixty · Young Money

Domo wrote:

i was at lunch you still havent mentioned one thing as to why hes not a top 3 qb but i will leave you with this...

MFisH wrote:

If I was making my list of guys i want right now (and not the future) here is how it would go:

1. Brady (no question in my mind)
2. Manning
3. Big Ben (toss up between him and breese but i think breese is in a much better offense for a qb which is why he has the #'s he does)
4. Breese (might move up depending on this years playoffs)
5. Rodgers

so lets recap... fish says ben is not a top 3 qb when January 6 he made his own list of top 10 QBs which included ben at #3. Since then ben has made it to his third super bowl. you mention that brees could move up depending on this years playoffs. Well brees lost to the 7-9 Seahawks and ben beat the 2 best defenses in the nfl other than the steelers.

fish your who argument is moot at this point.

bump... convo over

MFisH · Negus

ive reevaluated, big ben is now #5. rodgers is 3 breese is 4.

6ixty · Young Money

fish all credibilty you once had on this topic has been revoked

MFisH · Negus

im still confused, do u think the steelers would be better off with big ben over manning since day 1?

6ixty · Young Money

haha id rather be in big bens shoes this sunday than manning or bradys

MFisH · Negus

exactly what i thought. which is my point, i guess i thought about this a little more n i agree ben is a top qb, but i also thought about it more and my real point is u cant go with super bowl wins as ur main reason for y a qb is elite or not. just cuz a qb has 2-3 super bowl rings doesnt mean he is a hall of famer, and now u see every sports writer saying big ben is on the same level as brady and manning because of this and i just dont buy it. switch big ben for any elite qb and the results r the same if not better for the steelers.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

exactly what i thought. which is my point, i guess i thought about this a little more n i agree ben is a top qb, but i also thought about it more and my real point is u cant go with super bowl wins as ur main reason for y a qb is elite or not. just cuz a qb has 2-3 super bowl rings doesnt mean he is a hall of famer, and now u see every sports writer saying big ben is on the same level as brady and manning because of this and i just dont buy it. switch big ben for any elite qb and the results r the same if not better for the steelers.

Fish, you might of just made the dumbest statement a human NFL fan could say. Who are you? If your a !QUARTERBACK! who has 2-3 Super Bowl wins, you are a lock to make the Hall of Fame. A lock.

I wish I had the power to lock accounts for certain periods of time like in Around the Horn.

6ixty · Young Money

"switch big ben for any elite qb and the results r the same if not better for the steelers."

thats where we disagree. but ok. What will improve? the stats? hes the winningest QB ever in his first 7 years in the league theres not much to improve on. but ok if you switch ben for one of the 4 other elite QBs in the league the steelers might throw a couple more TDs per season but will likely lose more games. is that what you were going for?

is it aaron rodgers or brees that would have made that throw with terrell suggs hanging on his helmet? was it brees or rogers that would break a sack and scramble out of the pocket on 3rd and 6 and hit a rookie WR knowing that if its an incomplete pass the team will likely lose? is it brees or rogers that can throw defensive linemen off their back constantly, period?

if youre all about stats, ok, but ive never heard you talk like that before and now that it supports your argument your all about them

either way I'll keep ben thanks

MFisH · Negus

i couldnt disagree more. did u read the previous posts i had? u are named after dan marino do u really think troy aikmen is a better qb then him? its a team sport, so a qb winning a few times doesnt make him a hall of famer. u think if big ben would have 2-3 super bowls if he didnt have 2 defensive mvps and another 5 pro bowlers on defense? u think if he was on the colts he would have any super bowl wins? do u really think a player isnt good individually unless his team wins the whole thing?

MFisH · Negus

Domo wrote:

is it aaron rodgers or brees that would have made that throw with terrell suggs hanging on his helmet? was it brees or rogers that would break a sack and scramble out of the pocket on 3rd and 6 and hit a rookie WR knowing that if its an incomplete pass the team will likely lose? is it brees or rogers that can throw defensive linemen off their back constantly, period?

if the steelers had manning instead of big ben i dont think they would be in 16-13 dogfights. i think the score would be more like 30-13

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

i couldnt disagree more. did u read the previous posts i had? u are named after dan marino do u really think troy aikmen is a better qb then him? its a team sport, so a qb winning a few times doesnt make him a hall of famer. u think if big ben would have 2-3 super bowls if he didnt have 2 defensive mvps and another 5 pro bowlers on defense? u think if he was on the colts he would have any super bowl wins? do u really think a player isnt good individually unless his team wins the whole thing?

Dan Marino has nothing to do with this argument. Your saying a lot of things that don't have ANYTHING to do with my argument at all, as usual.

I'm not arguing anything about Big Bens Super Bowl wins, I don't care if he has the X Men as his offensive line, the point is he has those rings. And those rings are all that matters for the voters of the HoF.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

Domo wrote:

is it aaron rodgers or brees that would have made that throw with terrell suggs hanging on his helmet? was it brees or rogers that would break a sack and scramble out of the pocket on 3rd and 6 and hit a rookie WR knowing that if its an incomplete pass the team will likely lose? is it brees or rogers that can throw defensive linemen off their back constantly, period?
if the steelers had manning instead of big ben i dont think they would be in 16-13 dogfights. i think the score would be more like 30-13

Yet another really dumb comment. Players fit well with certain teams, Brady fits well with Belichick's beautful mind like coaching, Manning fits well with Caldwell who is like a puppet for Manning, and Big Ben fits well with Tomlin who makes sure his defense sets the stage for him.

To say that Manning would make any difference is really stupid, who the **** knows how he would do, but he wouldn't necesarily make them score more than they do?

MFisH · Negus

no ur missing the point of the argument. ur right, if big ben has 3 super bowl rings do i think when the time comes he will get in the hall of fame? yes, hall of fame voters are going to do that.

my point was i think this is the wrong way to judge a player. every year we hear about some players legacy being determined whether or not he wins a super bowl. we heard it last year with peyton, if he won his 2nd is he the greatest of all time??

thats my point, i dont get why sports writers make indidually ratings based off team accomplishments?

if u give an elite qb a defense with 2 defensive mvps, plus another 5-6 pro bowlers u dont think there gonna havea few super bowl rings also?

6ixty · Young Money

Chase Cox wrote:

To say that Manning would make any difference is really stupid, who the **** knows how he would do, but he wouldn't necesarily make them score more than they do?

thank you danny, for putting what I have been trying to say all morning into one sentence

its been a heated debate morning, id like to thank josh for submitting all these controveral threads then sitting back and watch us argue over them!

6ixty · Young Money

fish there have been a total of 3 QBs that have represented the AFC in the super bowl over the last 10 years: Manning, Brady and Roethlisberger

quit being stubborn and give the dude his props

6ixty · Young Money

btw the steelers werent winning super bowls with Tommy Maddox at QB. They missed the playoffs in 03, he gets hurt in 04, ben comes in, and goes 15-1 then wins the super bowl the next season. same defense, the only thing that changed was the QB. How does that work into your argument?

MFisH · Negus

i can understand y u guys dont want to agree on any of this, but lets break it down into 2 arguments which every1 keeps combining into 1 point:

argument #1: qbs should not be ranked on being elite indivdually based off TEAMS super bowl rings.

argument #2: u switch a player to a different team it makes a huge difference.

as for #2, yes i agree big ben fits great with tomlin. i also think charlie batch could lead a team with 2 defensive mvps to the playoffs. u put any elite qb on the steelers, there just as good if not better.

look at mcnabb, put up career numbers last year with the eagles. switch his team and now hes getting benched for rex grossman. do u think he forgot how to play? do u think he went from an "elite qb" to a 3rd stringer in 5 months? which brings me to my point, if u put big ben on the colts do u really think he is a 3 time super bowl winner?

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

no ur missing the point of the argument. ur right, if big ben has 3 super bowl rings do i think when the time comes he will get in the hall of fame? yes, hall of fame voters are going to do that.

my point was i think this is the wrong way to judge a player. every year we hear about some players legacy being determined whether or not he wins a super bowl. we heard it last year with peyton, if he won his 2nd is he the greatest of all time??

thats my point, i dont get why sports writers make indidually ratings based off team accomplishments?

if u give an elite qb a defense with 2 defensive mvps, plus another 5-6 pro bowlers u dont think there gonna havea few super bowl rings also?

How is that NOT a good way to judge a QB, its one of the most fail safe ways to judge a QB. Maybe its a bad way to judge someone like a punter, but to me it seems like a pretty good way to judge a QB.

Fish, Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl with a great defense, but did he do it again? Why the **** did the Ravens decide to not bring back Trent Dilfer? Because he wasn't good enough to win them another one. Why don't you stop being a douche and give the guy props.

MFisH · Negus

Domo wrote:

btw the steelers werent winning super bowls with Tommy Maddox at QB. They missed the playoffs in 03, he gets hurt in 04, ben comes in, and goes 15-1 then wins the super bowl the next season. same defense, the only thing that changed was the QB. How does that work into your argument?

i said elite qbs, not tommy maddox. and i remember the steelers going to thew playoff and even winning vs the browns one year. big ben also missed the playoffs in his career, when was the last time that happened with brady or manning? i think bradys missed it once and they were like 9-7

6ixty · Young Money

1. disagree
2. disagree

see the last 4 hours of conversation above for reasons

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

i can understand y u guys dont want to agree on any of this, but lets break it down into 2 arguments which every1 keeps combining into 1 point:

argument #1: qbs should not be ranked on being elite indivdually based off TEAMS super bowl rings.

argument #2: u switch a player to a different team it makes a huge difference.

as for #2, yes i agree big ben fits great with tomlin. i also think charlie batch could lead a team with 2 defensive mvps to the playoffs. u put any elite qb on the steelers, there just as good if not better.

look at mcnabb, put up career numbers last year with the eagles. switch his team and now hes getting benched for rex grossman. do u think he forgot how to play? do u think he went from an "elite qb" to a 3rd stringer in 5 months? which brings me to my point, if u put big ben on the colts do u really think he is a 3 time super bowl winner?

Your so frustrating Fish, you really think the Steelers win Super Bowls with Batch like they do with Big Ben?

Fish, you could move Manning to the Steelers and they could get worse. You have the argument of an autistic 5 year old.

6ixty · Young Money

MFisH wrote:

i said elite qbs, not tommy maddox. and i remember the steelers going to thew playoff and even winning vs the browns one year. big ben also missed the playoffs in his career, when was the last time that happened with brady or manning? i think bradys missed it once and they were like 9-7

but you said they could do it with charlie batch?

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Domo wrote:

1. disagree
2. disagree

see the last 4 hours of conversation above for reasons

AGREE, both arguments are seriously stupid. Like I'm getting mad at my computer screen, and it hasn't even done anything. I feel bad.