Email Chain

MFisH · Negus

RE: Big Ben, Dancing Queen

6ixty · Young Money

haha and its not even YOUR quarterback that hes talking about! imagine how i feel!

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Nick, Fish is going based on the fact that when he trades Manning to the Steelers there rating goes from 92 to 94.

6ixty · Young Money

MFisH wrote:

danny, before we go into "giving a guy props" i was the one who had him #3 last month and u have him #6. i was joking about earlier changing it. my ENTIRE argument was i dont think just cuz a guy wins a super bowl means he should be ranked indivudually. if thats the case your top qb of all time will look like this:

1. joe montan
2. terry bradshaw
3. troy aikmen
4. tom brady
5. jon elway

last: dan marino

besides marino who is the exception not the rule, that looks like a pretty good list to me

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

danny, before we go into "giving a guy props" i was the one who had him #3 last month and u have him #6. i was joking about earlier changing it. my ENTIRE argument was i dont think just cuz a guy wins a super bowl means he should be ranked indivudually. if thats the case your top qb of all time will look like this:

1. joe montan
2. terry bradshaw
3. troy aikmen
4. tom brady
5. jon elway

last: dan marino

Yeah, well good thing I don't rank QBs like that. I told you a million times how I rank players. Talent and potential. Does Big Ben move up that list now? Of course he does.

Nice Marino insult there, do you really think I care at this point what you think? Any real NFL fan knows where to appropriately rank Marino, but of course after the past hour of talking to you, it doesn't matter.

6ixty · Young Money

seriously, that list includes pretty much the best QBs of all time. manning should be there but hes been to a couple super bowls and is in the playoffs every year. they might not be in exact order but pulling that list proves my point exactly. The best QBs win super bowls. period.

unless you want to add brees or rogers to that lihahahah i almost got it out

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Aikmen before Elway? I don't think so. But here is my new list for you guys.

Dan's REVISED TOP 5 QB List (Current)

1. Peyton Manning
2. Phillip Rivers
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Ben Rothlesberger
5. Matt Ryan

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

And since were on the topic, here are my top 5 NFL QBs of all time. Based on several factors: Super Bowls, playoff performances, and statistics.

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Johnny Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

6ixty · Young Money

im just gonna throw out there the stat line of last years game between the steelers and packers and you guys tell me who you would rahter have:

Big Ben:
29-46 (63%)
503 yards (yes five hundred and three)
3 TDs
0 INT
37 points

Action Aaron:
26-48 (54%)
383 yards
3 TDs
0 INT
36 points

The Steelers defense gave up 36 points yet Ben still found a way to hit mike wallace with 0:00 seconds left to score 37. it was also the defense that put together that 95 yard drive in 2 minutes against the cardinals in the 08 super bowl right?

6ixty · Young Money

i see that weve moved on, so i digress, but thats my quarterback man

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Fish has receded back into his shell.

MFisH · Negus

u guys r so black and white its ridicouls.

1. i dont no why u think im so aganist ben. i have said i think he is a top 4, elite qb. my point was i dont understand why when ppl rank INDIVDUALS that TEAM accomplishments mean so much. u have to factor in the surronding talent around them. and out of every1s surronding cast the past 5 years, the steelers are definitly up there.

2. i dont no when i said charlie batch would get them to the super bowl. i said playoffs. do i think they would make it far in the playoffs? no. but my point is with that defense it doesnt take much.

3. danny, u make the most opposite comments in a 1 hour period i am getting dizzy. how can u tell me super bowl wins is the best way to judge a qb, then have dan marino as the #2 qb of all time?

4. if a player is good then he is good, it doesnt matter how many TEAM super bowls they have won in their career. this isnt golf and this isnt baseball. if i were the steelers, i would be happy as hell to have big ben, he wins and thats the goal. but when u go comparing him to a hall of famer and the top qbs of this generation i dont think he deserves it. like i said with mcnabb, switch teams and what what happens. if big ben was on the colts he would not have this many super bowls win and thats the bottom line to it

6ixty · Young Money

did i just beat fish in a big ben argument??

judges...(in my simon cowel voice)...YES!!

6ixty · Young Money

UPDATE from TMZ: This morning, Ben told reporters about his big night out … saying, “It was a superstition and tradition on Tuesday night. I take the linemen out to dinner. We went out for barbecue and then we wanted to hear some live music. We just had an enjoyable night.”

STONE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

u guys r so black and white its ridicouls.

1. i dont no why u think im so aganist ben. i have said i think he is a top 4, elite qb. my point was i dont understand why when ppl rank INDIVDUALS that TEAM accomplishments mean so much. u have to factor in the surronding talent around them. and out of every1s surronding cast the past 5 years, the steelers are definitly up there.

2. i dont no when i said charlie batch would get them to the super bowl. i said playoffs. do i think they would make it far in the playoffs? no. but my point is with that defense it doesnt take much.

3. danny, u make the most opposite comments in a 1 hour period i am getting dizzy. how can u tell me super bowl wins is the best way to judge a qb, then have dan marino as the #2 qb of all time?

4. if a player is good then he is good, it doesnt matter how many TEAM super bowls they have won in their career. this isnt golf and this isnt baseball. if i were the steelers, i would be happy as hell to have big ben, he wins and thats the goal. but when u go comparing him to a hall of famer and the top qbs of this generation i dont think he deserves it. like i said with mcnabb, switch teams and what what happens. if big ben was on the colts he would not have this many super bowls win and thats the bottom line to it

1. Were talking about the QUARTERBACK, this isn't a WR. Yes a Super Bowl is a team win, but the quarterback has a HUGE part of that win.

2. I didn't say Super Bowl wins were the BEST way to judge a QB, i said it was fail safe meaning that you can't look foolish arguing HoF for a player that has multiple Super Bowl wins.

3. What more does the guy have to do to get your respect Fish? You sound really sfoolish saying that Big Ben doesn't deserve to be up there all-time when you have Brady there.

4. You can't say for sure what a team would do if players got switched around. Thats not an exact science. How do you know Big Ben wouldnt win more Super Bowls with the Colts? How do you know Peyton wouldn't get NO Super Bowl wins with the Steelers? You can't.

MFisH · Negus

ur right, u cant argue 90% if this **** with facts, it is an opinion. and mine is i cant stand when the media and fans rank individuals and talk about legacies and the #1 reasoning is super bowl wins. dont u ever hear of coaches/players talk after they won there 1st super bowl saying things along the lines of "O, now that i won, NOW i am a good coach?"

and again, i dont no y i need to give props to big ben. he is a winner and is great for the steelers, but im not about to change my opinon and career view of him like every1 else after 2 wins

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Man Fish your kids are going to HATE you. Your going to be one of those fathers that nothing they do will be good enough for you.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Fish, just admit your nothing but a hater.

MFisH · Negus

i dont understand what im hating on? would u like me to declare big ben the greatest qb right now and a guarentee hall of famer if his team wins the super bowl?

i see why peter king has so many haters. make a list with ur own opinion and every1 says ur an idiot if you dont agree with them

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Hater.

MFisH · Negus

Chase Cox wrote:

Aikmen before Elway? I don't think so. But here is my new list for you guys.

Dan's REVISED TOP 5 QB List (Current)

1. Peyton Manning
2. Phillip Rivers
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Ben Rothlesberger
5. Matt Ryan

how did i miss this?? once again u complety talked in circles. how do u argue for 2 hours about super bowl wins for a qb and then have phillip rivers at #2 whos never even been there and matt ryan whos been smoked twice in the playoffs and has never won a playoff game over tom brady (3 time SB winner, 2 time mvp)?? i get u place more on potential, but as u mentioned with manning over big ben on the steelers, how do u no potential?

MFisH · Negus

danny i got a new nickname for u: "THE CAROUSEL!"

why u ask? cuz u talk in circles and every day i wanna hear what u have to say and take that ride, but but the end of it im a little dizzy and usually confused...

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

That's pretty clever Fish.

I told you how I rank my players on that list. Those would be the only 3 QBs ahead of Big Ben that I would want leading my team. The list though has nothing to really do with this conversation. Our argument started with you stating that you don't like how they determine if a player is HoF worthy, and you ultimetly said Big Ben was a no.

Not once have I switched my opinions, that is something you do frequently, and I think Nick has called you out on that plenty of times.

Also remember how this all really started, us talking about Big Ben going out and we agreed he should not have done that and the guy doesn't get it. That has no bearing on how I feel about him as a competitor though, which you obviously have done.

Fish, all I'm saying is your a hater. You did it with the Jets when they were in the AFC Championship game and now with Big Ben. Sure I talk **** about the Jets all the time, but when they got to the championship game I acknowledged there good play. Your a lot like Steven from Moco, you'll talk **** to the end of time, and at times he looks real silly when hes arguing about a team thats at the place they are at.

6ixty · Young Money

Haha you guys are funny we need to hug it out

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

**** that ****, this forum there are no hugs, no catching feelings, no personal insults, but I LOVE this ****. Agree?

6ixty · Young Money

Roethlisberger NFL Records:

-Most regular season wins in a season, rookie QB — 13 (2004)
-Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB — 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)
-Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) - 51 (from 2004–2008)
-Highest passer rating, rookie season — 98.1 (2004)
-Highest completion percentage, rookie season — 66.4% (2004)
-Highest single-game completion percentage, rookie season — 84.0% (completed 21/25 passes at Dallas on 10/17/2004)
-Most games with a completion percentage of 70.0% or higher, rookie season — 6 (2004)
-Most games with a completion percentage of 80.0% or higher, single season — 4 (2007)
-Most touchdown passes, Monday Night Football game — 5 (11/5/2007 vs. Baltimore Ravens)
-First QB to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)
-Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino)
-Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.

6ixty · Young Money

-Most touchdown passes, Monday Night Football game — 5 (11/5/2007 vs. Baltimore Ravens)

-Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.

Those 2 are especially interesting. I mean, any QB could do that if they have a great defense right?

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

See Fish we all have our own way to analyze players and teams.

Me - insightful and articulate thought and application of a wide variety of factors, thinking outside the box, putting his-self in "their shoes"
Nick - efficient application of statistical values and numbers
Fish - Dartboard, Tarot cards, daily horoscopes from the newspapers

6ixty · Young Money

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA

6ixty · Young Money

theres no right or wrong way to evaluate talent, but winning trumps all, and if you have good stats to go along with the wins there is no arguing that someone is an elilte QB.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

http://www.officeplayground.com/Dartboard-Decision-Maker-P77.aspx

MFisH · Negus

Chase Cox wrote:

See Fish we all have our own way to analyze players and teams.

Me - insightful and articulate thought and application of a wide variety of factors, thinking outside the box, putting his-self in "their shoes"
Nick - efficient application of statistical values and numbers
Fish - Dartboard, Tarot cards, daily horoscopes from the newspapers

Fish: Uses a unquie point of view that normally is not the same as any list u can pull off espn.com
Nick: Stats that usually have very little to do with the argument
Danny: Multiple points of views that all go aganist each other throughout the point and eventually is both right and wrong

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Fish, your the one who has been called out for changing your opinions, and it's been documented. Find an example of me doing this, instead of just stating that I do it.

6ixty · Young Money

actually your whole argument was that stats are more important for evaulating QBs than super bowl wins and I said winning means more than stats so your the one relying on stats statboy

MFisH · Negus

1. talking about super bowl wins being the best way to determine where to rank a qb, then have dan marion #2.

2. telling me super bowl wins is the best way to determine where to rank a qb then having tom brady not in ur top 5 and having matt ryan #5 who is 0-2 in playoff games.

3. telling me u cannot just say peyton manning would be better on the steeler scuz there is no way to know that and having matt ryan and phillip rivers over brady in ur top 5 based off "potential" which as u said, there is no way to determine that

6ixty · Young Money

Jpoo · Guru

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/03/aaron-rodgers-i-havent-been-out-carousing/

MFisH · Negus

nick: stats dont mean anything he just wins. look at the afc championship game he just makes plays!

2 hours later

nick: let me post and cheery pick 15 stats why big ben is good!

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

1. talking about super bowl wins being the best way to determine where to rank a qb, then have dan marion #2.

2. telling me super bowl wins is the best way to determine where to rank a qb then having tom brady not in ur top 5 and having matt ryan #5 who is 0-2 in playoff games.

3. telling me u cannot just say peyton manning would be better on the steeler scuz there is no way to know that and having matt ryan and phillip rivers over brady in ur top 5 based off "potential" which as u said, there is no way to determine that

1. I didn't say it was the best and only way to determine where to rank players. I just said you can't argue a player who has multiple Super Bowl wins. It's a perfect way to end an argument of that nature.

2. For the 1 millionth time, I based my list of current players on who I would "draft" to lead my team. Super Bowl wins have 0% to do with that list.

3. Potential is my own evaluation of a player Fish, of course there is no way to determine that.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Chase Cox wrote:

How is that NOT a good way to judge a QB, its one of the most fail safe ways to judge a QB. Maybe its a bad way to judge someone like a punter, but to me it seems like a pretty good way to judge a QB.

Fish, Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl with a great defense, but did he do it again? Why the **** did the Ravens decide to not bring back Trent Dilfer? Because he wasn't good enough to win them another one. Why don't you stop being a douche and give the guy props.

Again, if you read the post you would of gotten from it that I have many ways to make my lists and judge players. Remember we were judging a QB for the HoF, not the same thing as the current NFL list I made.

-- Edited by Chase Cox on Thursday 3rd of February 2011 02:01:49 PM

6ixty · Young Money

MFisH wrote:

nick: stats dont mean anything he just wins. look at the afc championship game he just makes plays!

2 hours later

nick: let me post and cheery pick 15 stats why big ben is good!

I destroyed your argument from both angles. I spent 4 hours convincing you that winning tops all and you argue that its all about stats so i post stats to show you he does more than win and you tell me im switching sides?!

MFisH · Negus

what about somebody like lebron james? is he the best bball player right now or does he have to win 5 championships for him to be in the conversation?

6ixty · Young Money

Kobe is the best bball player and its not even close. the 5 rings prove that and if you think lebrons career is on kobes level you are delusional

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

what about somebody like lebron james? is he the best bball player right now or does he have to win 5 championships for him to be in the conversation?

Please tell me you don't have Lebron atop that list then!? Marino seems way to similiar to Lebron!

MFisH · Negus

career wise kobe is better, im talking about the right now.

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

MFisH wrote:

career wise kobe is better, im talking about the right now.

Wait, did I just make that post? Your analysis sounds like mine. Who knew!

6ixty · Young Money

Bron averages .4 more points per game than Kobe this season. thats not enough to look past the fact that kobe won the ring last year

kobe > Bron RIGHT NOW

LeBron has better shoes if that make you feel better

Chase Cox · Blinn College Buccaneers Alum

Top 5 NBA Players Current

*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*

This list is based on several factors ranging from potential, upside. This is essentially the order I would draft players for my franchise, if I had the #1 pick.

*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*

1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Dwight Howard
5. Amar'e Stoudamire

Please, read and consent to the disclaimer before posting on this topic (Fish).

6ixty · Young Money

with 29.3 and 6.8 per game durant is better than both of them