Email Chain

MFisH · Negus

*SPOLIERS* MAKING A MURDERER (don't open until finished with series)

MFisH · Negus

if I had to make a guess, I clearly do not think Brendan had any role in this, but Stephen I am not so sure about. I don't think the police purposely framed him to avoid a lawsuit which was the defense strategy, but they did raise some good points and made what looked like a solid case. regardless, I don't think in 2005 something like that can happen and they can get away with it but I guess you never know. like I said in my previous post, he did have a lot of evidence against him, such as the blood in her car, his DNA on her key which was also found in his house, the bullet in his garage and obviously her bones in his gravel pit so I understand why a juror would find him guilty. but again, there was no blood anywhere in his house, if there was a bullet in his garage how was he able to clean everything in there? and again, what was the motive for him killing her, was that ever explained? I just don't get it.

I also think there is a whole other side to this family we are not seeing. in one of the trials a cop was being question about his email and he was reading something about the averys being a messed up family and they were having sex with cousins and weird **** like that so something was going on there. you also have the fact that 2 members of his family testified against steven or at least saying they saw the chick with him last. you also have the chubby 14 year old go to the cops and tell them Brendan said something about a burning body so like I said there is another side of this family the series is not showing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone else in that family who did the murder and they made it seem like it was steven who did it, but idk how smart any of them are to pull that off. I guess you never know, this whole thing is confusing and I almost wished I didn't watch it haha.

6ixty · Young Money

i want to believe that they are innocent, and throughout the whole season i believe that they are, based on what i saw. BUT in journalism like this its easy to make the audience believe what you want them to. they showed much more dialogue from the defense than the prosecutor so right there its making you hear more of an argument from one side over the other. i have to think there were many things that we didnt see, whether the producer wanted us to or not. there was much evidence like you mentioned that point to steven doing it, plus the testimonies from his own family regardless of how dumb they may be. lastly, in the sentencing hearing the judge said that averys crimes have gotten progressively worse over his life, and considering hes a judge i hope he would exclude the crime he was aquitted of, so he must have been in prison for multiple crimes that were never mentioned. obviously they werent murder but there was an obvious trend there from his past.

that said, I can absolutely see him and brendan being in jail right now for a crime they didnt commit. each piece of evidence had a very specific question(s) around the validitity of it.

- the key was not found during the first couple searches of the house. they spent 3 days scouring his probably 500 sq/ft trailer. impossible.
- the blood sample had been tampered with and the only DNA evidence connecting him with the car was blood. questionable.
- the bones had been moved and she her body was nearly destroyed in a "bonfire". incinerators burn MUCH hotter than a normal fire, which steven avery owns btw, yet the witness who said he saw a "3 foot fire" before and a "10 foot fire" the second time on the stand believes this is how she was burned. doubt it.
- the bullet was not only not found during the first search, but it proved nothing. there was no shell to compare to a gun to prove where it was shot from and no gun anyways, plus no analysis to prove what type of bullet teresa was shot with.
- the police dept had more motive than steven did

to me steven averys biggest mistake was not testifying. like he said "im innocent so i dont need to take the stand." well, if youre innocent you should take the stand and answer any remaining questions to remove all doubt. had he done that, the 7 jurors who originally believed he was innocent during deliberations probably could have better stood their ground. i also question why they didnt drill futher into blood in the bedroom or the garage. neither could have been fully cleaned up without traces of a crime committed there. prove thats not where it happens and the prosecutions case falls apart.

as for brendan, yeah his life was ruined because of one conversation with some people who were nearly writing answers for him. I thought for sure he would be found not guilty but anytime you have a video confession its hard to erase that. i dont know why his defense agreed to not play the last 2 hours of the interrogation when he was telling his mother they got into his head.

if you ask me i would have a hard time finding either guilty judging solely by the documentary. but again, there are definitely things we didnt see for one reason or another, and def a ton of things that we saw but the jury didnt.

Jpoo · Guru

Ugh, just.. ugh....

Finished the show in a day in a half, Dana and I couldn't turn away...

a few thoughts

A)If he "did" do it you're basically believing this is the story... (Warning wall of text)

·Steve Avery decides to rape and torture a woman who's buying a car from him. He does this in his own bedroom because he figures that’d be less suspicious than a forest, or old car, or anything obvious like that.

·Luckily no one hears the screaming except Steven’s borderline learning disabled nephew Brandon, who’s invited to join in.

·After the two cold-blooded psychopaths rape, stab and slash Theresa to within an inch of her life, they drag her bleeding body to the garage. Maybe Brandon is even walking behind the body with a mop, cleaning up as they go? Maybe Brandon even has one of those forensic suits, seeing how his DNA was nowhere to be found?

·Now in the garage, Steven shoots Theresa eleven times, because stabbing someone in the stomach and slitting their throat didn’t finish the job. Luckily no one in this quiet neighbourhood hears the eleven gun shots.

·Now there’s a lot of blood splatter in the cluttered garage, but the two killers impeccably clean the crime scene, ensuring not one drop of blood is found. But D’OH! they forget to pick up the eleven bullet casings and eleven bullets which they thought to remove from the body, but failed to remove from the garage.

·Thinking they've done a good job, they return to the bedroom which they wipe down with impeccable forensic skill, ensuring not one speck of blood can be found there either. Steven disposes of the shackles and rope and all that junk somewhere, and then asks Brandon to help with the body which they take to the creepy horrific sweaty Halloween bonfire.

·There they crack open a few brewskis and laugh whilst they watch it burn. They do this just outside the house because they don’t want to arouse suspicion, and figure they’ll hide in plain sight. Crafty!

·Now Steve gives Brandon one last important task - he must take some of the bones to the quarry pit on the other side of the yard. Not all the bones mind, just the pelvis. This artful piece of misdirection will have the prosecution guessing for weeks.

·Meanwhile, Steve drives the victim’s Toyota car past the car crusher right to the edge of the yard near the road. He doesn’t want to dump the car in a forest because he needs to keep it on his property. So there, at the edge of the road, he wipes it down with that now familiar forensic accuracy, leaving no traces of his DNA or fingerprints on the car seat, wheel or door. But again, D’OH! he leaves several drops blood from his cut finger, but does so in a manner that looks bizarrely like they were squirted on there with a syringe. Maybe further misdirection from this cunning killer?

·Steven then conceals the car with two small twigs and a plank of wood, which he knows will be enough to hide it from any pitch-fork wielding mob that might be inclined to point the finger at him.

·Steven now leaves the third crime scene, covering his footprints as he goes, taking with him the Toyota car key because he just loves keys. Maybe he even has a fetish for keys, or likes to keep creepy souvenirs like some kinda serial killer movie, like Kiss The Girls or something?

·Back in the immaculately clean bedroom, he hides the car key in the one place he knows the cops will never think to look... behind the cupboard.

·Steve now relaxes, knowing the crime scenes are clean and the only witness is Brandon, the kind of cool cat who definitely doesn’t buckle under pressure.

·As far as motive goes, it’s obvious Steven held an egotistical belief that he was somehow above the law, having been exonerated for a previous crime. Maybe he was even radicalized in jail by other creepy bearded men? 18 years is a long time.
Ironically, in the end, attention to detail was ultimately Steven's achilles heel, and his failure to hide the most important evidence; the bullets, blood and a car, and his blind faith in Brandon’s ability to withstand advanced police interrogation, ultimately proved to be Steven's undoing.

THAT. THAT’S WHAT YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE

So yeah, I don't think he did it.... And the fact Brendan is still in jail and his appeal wasn't accepted is horrifying.

6ixty · Young Money

haha that was great, especially the part about brandon.

a lot of people are apparently pissed about it after watching the doc and started a petitio to hear their appeals

www.unilad.co.uk/viral/making-a-murderer-case-may-be-turned-on-head-after-documentary-release/

Jpoo · Guru

uproxx.com/sports/making-a-murderer-green-bay-packers/

6ixty · Young Money

haha the whole article makes it sound like there will be some link between avery and the packers... and then just ends. funny that someone found him but other than working for the packers and being hired arounf the same time as teresas death theres nothing else to see here.... or am i missing something?

MFisH · Negus

THE PACKERS ARE COVERING THIS WHOLE THING UP

6ixty · Young Money

so we know a single documentary can be a bit one sided, and MaM sure made it sound like steven avery was innocent. well apparently there was some evidence the show didnt tell us about. like avery sexually harrassed that women in the past, the bullet with her dna on it was eventually proven to be from averys gun (I mentioned this one above in this thread), his dna was found on the hood latch after brendon told police they planted the car and removed the battery, and her palm pilot was also found in his burn barrell. oh, and brendon told his mother and others a few other times that they did it. also, bredon sold crack.

the full report can be found here: www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_and_tv/is-steven-avery-guilty-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

a few good pieces:

-- The documentary said that part of Avery's criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn't specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).

-- Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.

-- In the months leading up to Halbach's disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

-- Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn't want to go out to Avery's trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

-- On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

-- The bullet with Halbach's DNA on it came from Avery's gun, which always hung above his bed.

-- Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he's purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he'd had a tumultuous relationship -- at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).

-- Here's the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey's illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach's car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don't believe the police would plant -- or know to plant -- that evidence.

There’s additional info in there, as well, like evidence that Halbach’s Palm Pilot and camera were found in Avery’s burn barrel, and that Brendan Dassey told police he’d been molested by Avery in the past.

MFisH · Negus

yeah I knew there was a whole other side of evidence we were not seeing, esp with the family past. like I said since day 1, I have no idea if steven avery did it or not, the show sure seems like he was framed by someone whether it be the cops or his own family but for him to still be convicted by a jury means they had a lot of other not so questionable evidence so who knows. I still think Brendan had little if anything to do with it and its crazy he's supposed to spend 40 years in jail for whatever he did. his reactions in the interviews didn't seem like a person smart enough to realize he was an accomplice in a murder, or covering one up, it seemed like he was a 16 year old who had serious education problems and was just saying whatever he thought the cops wanted to hear. who knows though, maybe he is a criminal master mind and this is all an act!

6ixty · Young Money

^^ haha.

-- There's no denying that it was unethical as hell for the investigator of Dassey's own attorney to elicit a confession out of Brendan, but the documentary suggests that the investigator peppered Brendan with leading questions and basically fed him the answers. From the full transcript, that is not the case at all. Brendan not only confessed, he gave a very detailed account of what happened. They had sex with Teresa on the bed, then they carried her out to the garage, where they cut her throat, and that's where Steven shot her five times with the .22 Brendan said he pulled from above his bed. Then they threw her in the fire. She begged for her life through the entire ordeal. Brendan even cut off some of her hair. Then they cleaned up with bleach and burned all the clothes in the bonfire.

even the author says thou that she wouldnt be able to convict avery or adnan from serial based on what they know. i dont think well ever really know unless this petiton actually works and he gets another trial which would be national coverage.

speaking of serial, josh you have a chance to start season 2? its even better than season one and i think its because of the story. they jump right into why beau left the outpost in episode one and spend more time telling the story about his time in captivity and escape attempts. it took a break for the holidays but is back tomorrow an i cant wait!

6ixty · Young Money

man this thing is taking off

gma.yahoo.com/making-murderer-prosecutor-says-netflix-series-wasnt-documentary-173744619--abc-news-topstories.html

MFisH · Negus

well no kidding the prosecutor is going to defend his work and say the series didn't show his side very well, did you hear about all the negative yelp reviews he was getting?? haha, makes me now realize how realistic those south park yelp episodes were! but after reading all these articles I think im more confused now about who did it than I was before haha

MFisH · Negus

steven avery thinks his brothers were the one who did it:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/06/steven-avery-brothers-murder-teresa-halbach/?adid=hero1

-- Edited by MFisH on Wednesday 6th of January 2016 10:46:50 PM

6ixty · Young Money

there have been all kinds of theories lately. somewhere i read a good one that really laid out the evidence against the brother and the nephew (who testified). could def see it.

what annoys me is ppl who take a stance either way. they have no idea whether their theory is correct. obama cant pardon him since its a state case. the best anyone can hope for is a retrial (doubt it), but to draw 100% conclusions from the documentary is stupid.